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Owners Approve KO Rules–with Modifications

Posted by Randy Lange on March 22, 2011 – 1:26 pm

(Rewritten throughout, updated with Rex Ryan quotes from today)

NFL owners have approved a modified kickoff-rules package and instant-replay review of all scoring plays, the Washington Post’s Mark Maske has reported.

The kickoff proposals as detailed by NFL Competition Committee chairman Rich McKay last week received a few tweaks after league coaches at the owners meetings in New Orleans raised objections to many of the recommended changes.

Specifically, kickoffs will be moved from the 30-yard line back to the 35. But the owners voted to keep the touchback spot at the receiving team’s 20, not moving it as recommended to the 25. And they also decided to reject the committee’s recommendation of wiping out all wedges and keep the two-man wedge in front of the returner, which was introduced in 2009.

Among those coaches not thrilled with the original proposals was Jets head coach Rex Ryan, who spoke with reporters for more than an hour this morning.

“I’m personally not in favor” of eliminating the wedge from the game, Ryan said. “The two-man wedge protects the returner on mortar kicks, and if we’re trying to eliminate injuries, I think that helps the returner. It also gets bigger players on the field. You don’t always have to have ‘space’ players on the kick team. It allows you to have some linemen back there. I’m also in favor of leaving the touchback the way it is.”

But Ryan wasn’t too concerned about the outcome because of his teams coordinator back home.

“The great thing about our system is we have Mike Westhoff, who I think is the best special-teams coach in football — maybe in the history of football,” he said. “So we’ll make it work one way or the other. He’ll make it work. He does a great job. We have some guys with return ability, so you’d kind of like to see the rules stay the same. If it’s voted the other way, that’s fine.

“Now, we don’t want to major in kickoff returns, I’m just telling you that right now.”

NFL.com also confirmed the owners’ votes on the rule proposals. The league’s Website said the owners voted on the kickoff rules above and also approved replay modifications that would remove the necessity for coaches to use replay challenges on any scoring play. Just as scoring plays have been reviewed upon recommendation of the replay assistant in the booth in the final two minutes of halves and in overtime, now all plays in which points are scored will be reviewed.

However, NFL.com says that the third replay challenge that all teams have if they win their first two challenges in a game will still be available. The original proposal was to do away with the third challenge, considering that many challenges were already being spent on scoring plays.

Owners also tabled the vote on changing some of the language in the proposed clarifications and modifications in the “defenseless player” rules language.

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HBO just announced today that it has received 22 nominations — second-highest total among all networks — for the 32nd annual Sports Emmy Awards, and that the Jets helped out as last August’s “Hard Knocks: Training Camp with the New York Jets” received four of those nominations.

The HK nominations were in outstanding edited sports series/anthology, outstanding editing, outstanding camera work, and outstanding post-produced audio/sound.

The Sports Emmys will be passed out May 2 at the Frederick P. Rose Hall in the Time Warner Center in New York.


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Posted in Randy Lange | 104 Comments »


104 Responses to “Owners Approve KO Rules–with Modifications”

  1. By IRA on Mar 22, 2011 | Reply

    Don’t like this move at all. This will take away a lot of the excitement from the game. And like i said earlier this week Cro would’ve never had a chance to set up the Jets in Indy if this rule was in effect then. Why do they need to make chancges like this? .Why didn’t the owners listen to the HC’s who didn’t want this. I just don’t get it!
    I saw some stats and these #’s are close to what i saw. There were like 990 or so KO’s last year and 440 or so were TB’s. Next year that 440 will go up to 600 plus for sure.
    Seattle must be kicking themselves for paying Leon good money now. Why invest that money in return men when their #’s will go down.

  2. By IRA on Mar 22, 2011 | Reply

    This also makes me wonder did the owners really do this for the safety of the players or more likely so they don’t have to pay big money to players like hester,Cribbs,Leon and some others?

  3. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 22, 2011 | Reply

    I hope so Ira I sure hope so ..They don’t deserve millions to return kicks get over it ..let some of the money saved on these guys go back to Fans ..I’D return kicks for 200k a year and be overjoyed about it ..next if I got 11 million a year to cover wide outs they can use Baseball bats catches mits on a motor cycle see how much I would complain..

  4. By GaryC on Mar 22, 2011 | Reply

    sanchez will really need to get off the ground and running now and shotty too. no more brad smith returns setting them up in good feel position.you wonder if guys like smith and cribbs will become obsolete with these rule changes.

  5. By scjoe on Mar 22, 2011 | Reply

    I don’t like it either Ira. Sometimes I wish that the owners should not even be allowed to get involved in rule changes or any changes on the playing field for that matter. Just stick to the business side of it, God knows they don’t even do that correctly. But the only saving Grace in this Ira, is the fact that it is the same for all 32 teams, so lets see what happens.

  6. By NFairyL on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Injuries are a part of life in the contact world. This game is supposed to be intended for the big boys, the tough guys. I understand owners wanting to protect overpriced players so they dont lose money, but dulling the game will cause you to lose more in the long run. Well not long run since we wont see that much anymore. That 5 yards will put alot of kickers that usually cant make the endzone into TB range. Keep putting water in the koolaid and eventually the kids wont drink it anymore. “Ok defense, count to 10 mississippi then blitz but dont hit the qb, just take his flag.”

  7. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    This has been a bad few weeks. First Japan, then Sabol now Rex’s father Buddy. Just pray and hope for the best for all.

  8. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    The official # was 44% of the KO’s went for TB’s. That should increase to 60% or more espeically with teams playing in domes.

  9. By Pranit on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    agree with IRA…don’t like the rule at all….they are slowly, step by step taking the fun out of the game,..

  10. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    scjoe, The good thing is that we have Coach Westhoff and he will come up with some things. Have to trust him and the success he has had in in the return game.
    GO JETS!!!!

  11. By GaryC on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    hey this is close to getting to rugby rules,kick it throught goalposts on kickoff and you get an extra point.

  12. By Tom Spicer on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    The owners are worried about player saftey so they want to change the rules but on the other hand they want to go & add 2 games on to the season YEA THAT MAKES SENSE!

  13. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Spicer, everything you and others are saying here just backs up what I’ve been saying about how Goodell couldn’t give a damn about player safety, just money. It’s obvious that his long-term goal is to pattern pro football after international soccer, in which an unending series of games all over the globe involves fans everywhere non-stop. A completely unrealistic and counter-productive goal for the NFL, of course, but Goodell and his misguided loyalists aren’t even hip to what he’s trying to do, and they won’t be until it’s too late. Anyone really concerned with player safety wouldn’t tweak rules pointlessly while also trying to add games and drive up ticket prices. Are you listening, Frank?

  14. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Tom,
    Bingo you are right on. I strongly suggest watching some CFL starting this June. Its not bad and fun to watch. Plus Toronto is a great city plus Rick Ray a former Jet just threw for 3600 yds this past year. I can’t believe i will be home watching CFL this summer instead of going to Cortland thanks to all the owners. I still suggest the fans not go to Radio City this year. Boycott lets get back to the 60’s movements!

  15. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Game starting to look like nothing I reconize between all this greed, false concern, bringing about needless lockouts or whatever you genious want to call it..idiotic Rules never meant to be mentioned in the same sentence with american football, bias refs, prices sky rocketing everything football related, what’s going on unbelievable ..This mostly started under guess who’s watch only thing I can’t blame on you know who not mentioning names cause we have beat it to death (R-Goodell) is the greed that started with the end of when men were men and spoiled brats took center stage.. How I long for the old days a beer and a Hotdog we can afford anyway

  16. By Frank on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Ira I still think your numbers are off on the touch backs. I don’t agree with moving the ball to the 35 without moving the touchback to the 25 that would have kept the return game in play. The flipside is as the weather gets colder there will be significantly less touchbacks than in the beginning of the year. Shorting up the head start from 10 to 15 yards down to 5 yards will help. Tommy 64 you are clearly unhinged in your Goodell Derangement Syndrome. Blaming the owners for everything doesn’t fly. Penalizing the players for unnecessary crushing hits against defenseless players DOES improve player safety he should be appaluded for that effort. When Revis holds out with 3 years on a contract and forces Management to pony up an extra 30 Mil

  17. By Frank on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    who is forcing up ticket prices? It happens all the time the owners get stuck paying the ridiculous contracts of Gohlston and all the other huge draft busts and then when a player outperforms their contract are held hostage to giving even more money. Its not all about the owners so give it a break and get a grip!

  18. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    When me, Ira, scjoe, GaryC, Spicer, and MJV are all condemning the miserable state of the NFL, the league’s in big trouble, that’s for sure. And I wouldn’t be surprised if Arte, Row, and plenty more of the regulars agree with us, too.

  19. By GaryC on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    like I said, make it rugby and we won’t need helmets,bring back the single wing,nagurski, thorpe and we can have throwback week every week.

  20. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, The #’s as per ESPN.Com KO’s that were from the 30 yd line last year totalled 917 and 416 were TB’s. Thats a 44% rate and it will go up at least another 25 % maybe more.

  21. By scjoe on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, The owners get “stuck” paying the ridicules contracts like Gholston? Tell me who else should get stuck paying them? Who did the research on him? Who made the decision to sign him? Who offered that “ridiculous” amount of guaranteed money? Maybe not the owner himself in all cases, but certainly an agent of the owner, one who has all the owners blessings and all his trust, wouldn’t you agree?

  22. By GaryC on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    I have to agree with frank, most of the owners don’t know a thing about the players,that is why they hire general managers,you would think if you are doling out huge contracts the player personnel should be held more accountable than owners.to the guys like snyder,jones and their ilk this is a play toy to them of owning a team.they are just going by the word of personnel dept.

  23. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    scjoe,
    You bring up Gholston. Too bad it didn’t work out and i wish him well. Some 4-3 team will pick him up. This year we all know they need to draft a OLB who can get to the QB. Maybe even two of them if possible. They need to add speed back there. What i don’t want to see is them draft a tweener who is projected to move frpm DE to OLB. It didn’t work with Gholston and i don’t want to see them try that again. There are enough OLB who have some 3-4 experience. And by the way J. Houston got a bad report from Mayock after he studied game film of him. He may be your next workout warrior who doesn’t make it. Ayers is the better fit for them. And you wonder after they struck out with Nugent, VG and Schlegel all from Ohio State.

  24. By IRA on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    You wonder if they will feel uneasy about another Ohio State kid even though they got Mangold from there. 1 out of 4 would raise a red flag from me. I like the Heyward kid as a DE so will they take another kid from Ohio State right now? Obi Ezeh might be worth a late rd pick. He has had some experience at Michigan in a 3-4 and 4-3 and the Jets do like Big Ten players.

  25. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Yep Frank is right on Ira your delusional blaming owners .. players are not in step with fans or owners players just get richer we get stiffed . let me enlighten you on a few proven points… owners fork out million and millions to players in good faith with ludicrous contracts they get hurt owners still pay they get arrested they still pay they get suspended they still pay when hurt they have the best medical coverage in the country best surgeons preform the most advanced procedures to get them back on the field some even be4 they are proven NFL players owners always honor contracts what do they get in return if owner is lucky enough to get one good season they hold out for a new contract Ira how stupid do you believe us fans are

  26. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, I’d be happy to discuss the work of every NFL commissioner with you going back to the time when there was also an AFL commissioner but you obviously wouldn’t be able to stay in the room for it. Anyone who’s been watching pro football for more than a few yrs can see several disastrous things going on with the game now that are driven by Goodell’s control-freak mania for more money and power. The almost weekly tweaking and untweaking of the rules is one, the ridiculous lust to turn a fall-winter sport into a four-season sport is another, and the complete abdication of any effort to make the cost of tickets, concessions, etc. affordable to working people is a third. It’s you who needs to get a grip — on the most basic realities.

  27. By scjoe on Mar 23, 2011 | Reply

    Ira, The only reason I brought up Gholstons name was in response to what Frank had mentioned about the owners eating those type contracts. As for Gholston himself? I have stated this point on many of my posts re: Gholston, he is a 4-3 DE PERIOD, the experiment did not work out, but that does not mean he can not have a successful career as a DE in a 4-3 system.(Indy?) I would also agree with you about staying away from those “tweener” types with the intentions of turning a undersized college DE into an NFL 3-4 OLB It may work sometimes, for us it did not, and as it turned out, the price was way to high. I think the safest way to go, re: a pass rusher is to look at a bulked up college OLB, not an undersized DE

  28. By GaryC on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    ira, do not be scared off of guys making the transition from down lineman to stand up linebacker in three four. woodley of pittsburgh was able to do it. the problem with golston was everyone saw him dominate jake long in one game in college and everyone got on his bandwagon.He was never big enough to play a down lineman in pros and to muscle bound to have the flexibility to be a outside linebacker.

  29. By GaryC on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    here is another point to make about me wanting to trade revis for high picks in draft.steelers got to super bowl without dominating corners because they can sack the quarterback.winning in todays nfl is about scoring and getting to the quarterback.whats the sense of having a shutdown corner if you have to blitz and leave other openings in defense.

  30. By champmclean on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Yes, a a big disappointment Gholston was, but thats the game. Nearly any team with that pick would have taken him. I would like to see something put into place that would make draft-day blunders like Gholston less devistating to an organization.
    Value for value. A man should be paid what he is worth for the things he can do, not for the things he might be able to do.

  31. By Frank on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Tommy 64 yet again you talk in cliche, forked tongue and hyperbole. I have listed specific instances that have helped protect player safety you offer no counter arguement to the contrary. The game has grown tremendously as have player contracts under Goodell’s watch doubled as a matter of fact. Football ratings are the best they have ever been. There is signifcantly more being done for veterans and research into head injuries and enforcing new rules with regard to players playing with concussions than under any tenure of any other commissioner in the history of the NFL. So Tommy boy you still want to spout your Goodell Mania? You remind me of Drew who used to spout off with out any facts to back it up.

  32. By IRA on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Gary, Pitt got to the SB this past year because the Jets didn’t show up until the 2nd half. Pitt was the perfect matchup for the Jets and the Jets were the better team. Sadly the better team lost.
    I do agree with the rookie pay scale. The guaranteed money some of these rookies get is insane. So i am with the owners on that issue.
    I think Taylor is probably the safest and smartest pick they could make if he is there at #30 and we are still there. Trader Mike is always on the move.

  33. By Frank on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Come on SCJoe you know better than that? There is a rookie pay scale that doles out ridiculous money to unproven players. Goodell and the owners have been attempting to shift that money to the veterans with a new rookie pay scale. As for your scouting angle there are many high draft picks Jamarcus Russell anyone? who don’t pan out and end up with ridiculous money. Gohlston wasn’t an anomaly but a frequent occurance with many high draft picks who don’t deserve the money they receive. Everyone complains about the high cost of the games and attending them each one of you has the right to say no and not spend the money so do it and send a message.You can bet as the players union clamours for more money the cost of the game will continue to rise

  34. By scjoe on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, don’t recall saying E Smith was a “solid” pick, so I went back and read my last post again, sure enough I did NOT say it! Look, we could argue what Sanchez is, or is not for another whole season, agree or not, the book is still out on him. Yes, “the team” did make it to 2 consecutive championship games, but to hear you, and a few others talk you would think it was entirely Sanchez that got us there, news flash “it was not!” you say he is a winner, I say he was no more then average during the season and the playoffs and that the “team” were winners. You, and a few others, like putting words in my mouth re MS. I say he is an average QB at this point, what exactly is wrong with that? Do you actually feel he is a “great” QB right now??

  35. By GaryC on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Ira, that is losers lament, that we did not show up.can the jets say that for the last 41 years.never giving credit to the opponent and always saying WE lost the game is why the jets have not been to super bowl in long time.Need to hone up to the weaknesses of the team.

  36. By champmclean on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    GaryC, Your thoughts on trading revis are asonine but I applaude you for giving due credit to the steelers. We could have won that game but didnt. We lost because we couldnt tackle.
    scjoe, Sanchez is a winner. The team needs him as much as he needs the team. Not an easy thing for me to say. I hated that pick.

  37. By IRA on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Gary,
    I didn’t see many weaknesses in the 2nd half. If Sanchez got his hand on the ball one more time the Jets would’ve won another game with the clock running out. The Steelers were reeling in that 4th QT.
    Its are not to debate they were physically and emotionally tired headed into Pitt. Rex even said it this week, 5 out of their last 6 games were on the road. It took its toll even though they play better on the road than home which is a whole other debate.

  38. By scjoe on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, I never disputed the fact that there were, and still are, many Gholston and Jamarcus Russell mistakes by many teams. My point, and I will stand by it, is owners (all of them) brought this outrageous salary structure upon them self. Two of the biggest culprits? Al Davis and Dan Snyder. I am not talking about rookie wage scales only, but the whole salary structure in general. We are all pro football fans and probably will continue to be no matter what happens, but me personally? I just can not buy into the idea of paying any one person at ANY position the outrageous and ridicules sum of TEN million dollars (or more) per 16 game season. Just stop and think about that sum for one minute Frank then we can talk about ticket prices again.

  39. By scjoe on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Also Frank, when you are thinking about that $10,000,000.00 sum (or more) please don’t equate the injury factor into it, because as I have posted numerous times, if you want to talk about occupations with injury or even death risk involved look to that of police officers, fire fighters, soldiers!! etc. Then factor in their salaries compared to an “average” not a great, but an average pro football player. Now, who do you blame for those outrageous salaries? The players or the owners? Which has more control over what a standard NFL contract should be.Granted, they are paying those sums for a competitive advantage, but does that really justify them?

  40. By GaryC on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    champmcclean,why is trading revis asinine, one time the browns got to two straight championships and lost and haven’t been back again.and they had two shutdown corners dixon and minniefield.I am not saying you don’t need corners but it is not the most important defensive position.A pass rush solves many more problems than a shutdown corner and right now there is no one except and this is a big if calvin pace reverts to his old form.

  41. By GaryC on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    to ira, that point you make about playing all the playoff games on the road is a valid point,that is why jets have to stop blowing games at home that they are favored to win.It would be nice to get a bye and send the patriots out on the road for their playoff games.

  42. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 24, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, I have plenty of facts but I can’t present them to someone so oblivious to the history of the NFL in only 400 characters. But just briefly — bigger contracts don’t mean better football, I’m with MJV on contracts need to become SMALLER. Higher ratings don’t mean better football either, and with the ridiculous amount of money spent on advertising and promotion, which adds to the cost of tickets immensely,if the ratings WEREN’T spectacular, it would be a scandal! Player safety is NEVER going to be enhanced by playing more games, PERIOD, it all starts and ends there. That’s all I have time for here, but I doubt facts mean anything to anyone who lives in a worshipful dreamworld. Get back to me when you start living in the real world.

  43. By Tom Spicer on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    MIKE THE EX JET, Everything form top to bottom you wrote is WRONG “owners fork out million and millions to players in good faith with ludicrous contracts they get hurt owners still pay they get arrested they still pay they get suspended they still pay” A player gets hurt they get CUT, a player gets old they get CUT & a players salary gets to high they get CUT. NFL owners are the # 1 offenders of not honoring contracts.

  44. By Tom Spicer on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, “As for the draft picks? In retrospect, you can’t argue with the selections of Revis, Mangold, Brick, Harris, maybe even Smith and Smith. (Book still out on Sanchez in my opinion)” This is your quote saying Eric Smith is a good draft pick & you dont think that Mark is when Smith is a guy that could get cut right now & not one guy would say anything about it.

  45. By IRA on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    Gary, I don’t know what it is but for some strange reason the Jets and Giants play better on the road. I truly believe when they are on the road they have less pressure on them from the media, family and friends. So they are more focused. 5-3 at home last year with a shutout loss to the Pack after a bye and losing 10-9 to Balt and 10-6 to Mia makes zero sense. You can’t win every game but you also can’t play three home games and only score 9 pts combined. And its not Schotty so please i don’t want to hear that.
    Go back to 01,02,04,06,09,10 all playoff years and 1 AFC East Title those teams combined home W/L record is 27-21. So while i would love to get a home PO game and look at the Pats and SD losing Div H games both to the Jets.

  46. By Tom Spicer on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, ” I say he was no more then average during the season and the playoffs” This is your quote from above average in the playoffs REALLY? vs the Colts he leads us down the field on the winning drive to beat Manning on the road. vs the Pats a team that was 14 & 2 & had the record for the most consecutive home wins in the history of the NFL & he has a 127 rating & 64 % completion percentage (you guys love to harp on those 2 stats) has 3 TD’S & zero picks & zero sacks & leads us to a victory over Brady SO THAT IS AVERAGE? So I can understand this correctly if a 127 rating, 64% completion percentage, 3 TD’S, 0 picks, 0 sacks & 0 fumbles is average. What is your idea of a good game 4 TD’S? What is your idea of a great game 5 TD’S? Cause if

  47. By Tom Spicer on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    that is the case there is not one QB in the NFL who averages a good game to you. Vs Pitt rating 102 rating, 60% completion percentage, 2 TD’S & 0 picks on the road in minus 5 degrees vs the #1 ranked D in the NFL. We were also down 24 to 0 & he lead us back to being down 7 with 1st & goal at the 2 & it was all the passing game we rushed for 68 yards the whole game. 3 road playoff games vs Peyton, Brady & Big Ben with completion percentages of 58, 60 & 64 percent & only 1 pick in 3 games. To say anything less than he played GREAT in the playoffs is WRONG PERIOD END OF STORY!

  48. By THUNDER LIPS on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    Scjoe … actually research and statistics have proven that cops and fireman have low a risk of death and serious injury. Electricians, ironworkers/steel erectors, window cleaners, power line workers and miners have the riskiest jobs.

    Oops I forget Sports Bloggers … Sorry Randy. Its a dangerous job reading some of these comments on these blogs … i am sure there is high risk of insanity. LOL.

    my ticket guy just emailed me about the home opener and last home game for 2011 season (I get those every year since i can’t afford the season tickets anymore after having them for 8 years) i told him i can’t commit yet cuase of all the **. its very sad.

  49. By IRA on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    EA, Nice story about the DL. Its hard to debate them not taking a DE or NT IF they stay at 30th. I doubt Ayers will slip and i am starting to read that Houston will not be a good fit in a 3-4. The safety class is not that great and unless they want a CB, OL or WR early [you never know]i would draft Taylor or Heyward if they were on the board.
    GO JETS!!!!

  50. By scjoe on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, you recreated my entire post above, where does it say that E Smith was a “solid pick?: I said, and you can go back one more time and read what you wrote, that in retrospect you can not argue with the picks of Revis, Mangold, Brick, and Harris, which you can not. Then I said “maybe” even Smith and Smith, Correct me if I am wrong here, but E Smith was a 3rd or 4th round pick, we didn’t trade up, lose draft picks, and pay him 60 mill now did we? Tom, once again you do a great job of digging through the games to find those where he had good stats. I can do that too, very easily, go back and give you multiple games where he had terrible stats. Whats the point? I am talking about the big picture when I say the book is still out on him.

  51. By scjoe on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    also Tom, there are those out there who say that MS didn’t do enough in the first half of that Pitt game to give us a chance to win. Who am I, or you for that matter to disagree with that statement? I know, what you will say Tom, blame it on the D, blame it on the running game, blame it on the dropped passes, blame it on the pass protection, blame it on ANYTHING except Mark Sanchez. Sometimes I wonder Tom, are you a NY Jet fan or just a huge fan of Mark Sanchez? Five years from now the man may turn in to a very good QB,who knows for sure, right now, based on the whole body of work he is no more then average. Would you agree with that or will you tell me he is a great QB right now?

  52. By scjoe on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    Thunderlips, my bad, I will include the iron workers, miners, electricians, power line workers, even the window washers in my statement comparing their risks with that of a pro football player. People say, “the average career of an NFL player is three years” Now, I don’t have the exact stats here in front of me, but I will go out on a limb here and say that may be true but mostly due to performance, like any other company, NOT because of injury alone. Seems like I have been watching Manning, Brady, Brees, LT, Freeny, S. Ellis, Palmer, Moss, Owens, Ocho whatever, etc. etc. etc. and hundreds more etc. for a little more then three years now. Valid point?

  53. By scjoe on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, you mention the Indy game and the NE game in the playoffs. Now, do you think, in your wildest dreams that maybe, just maybe, the defense had just a little bit to do with winning both those games? Holding both “great” QBs in check so that 17-20 points could win it? C’mon now Tom, through them at least a little tiny bone.

  54. By GaryC on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    you have to give the jets defense a litlle credit to get as far as they have been considering no pass rush and a quartet of linebackers who have trouble covering backs and tightends.

  55. By IRA on Mar 25, 2011 | Reply

    Gary, It all comes back to Rex and his D staff. Imagine 2 yrs in a row and you can’t run on the Jets and they play almost all of those 2 yrs without KJ. Imagine how this D will be if they draft a Taylor to team up with Pouha and if Gilbert or Dixon can possibly develop and they add a young pass rusher? I expect a shutout or two next year.

  56. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    Let me try again.. Tom Spicer your again criticizing owners and posts when at least facts are on display but as usual once again yours haven’t any, just opinions .. Funny I didn’t hear your take on my part about player Medical coverage while you went on about if a player is hurt old or makes to much they get cut Really! I believe you forgot the fact owners 95%of the time at least wait till their contract is up if what you say even holds any merit at all .. I never seen owners hold back or hold out to pay any players have you ? Like I said maybe one day Sanchez will own a team lord knows he’s going to make enough over the years with your blessing then you’ll see it the other way I’m sure.. which ever way the wind blows Huh

  57. By IRA on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    Want to share this thought it was interesting. In a typical NFL season there are 149 missed FG’s, 789 FG’s, 15 safeties, 2,488 KO’s, 13 PR TD’s, 315 replays, 113 calls reversed, 15 KO’s TD’s, 9 shutouts, 22 blowouts, 32,011 plays from scrimmage, 1,117 sacks, 3,629 flags, 2,412 punts, 27,055 solo tackles, 1,885 players with at least 1 game played, 8,192 balls used, 1,218 TD’s, 27 game winning FG’s, 26 2 pt conversions.
    Clearly you can see i miss the free agency period.

  58. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    But Ira, you forgot the one statistic I want to know the most: How many times a year does an OC pass on 1st and goal inside the 10? Oh sorry, that would be pretty much exclusively a Jet statistic, not an NFL statistic.

  59. By Frank on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    Tommy 64 again a bunch of hot air and opine on your behalf the facts speak for themselves. As for expanding to 18 games the owners left it to the players to decide on that issue. Stay up to speed in the negotiations and you will learn something. Also increasing to 18 games would also mean an expansion of rosters and the chance for further development of additional players thereby adding more players to the NFL. I am sure you were one of the naysayers when the league expanded from 14 to 16. It’s happened before it will happen again. The league also offered to shorten the offseason program, the preseason which is a huge waste anyway and add another bye week. Personally I think it would be awesome to add 3 weeks of relevant football.

  60. By JOHN AVVENTO on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    Everyone needs to chill out and look at the big picture; This only helps a team like the Jets that plays tough defense and wants to win the battle of field position. In addition, it seems like the only touchbacks we see in Jet games are when we are receiving the football. Our kicker, Nick Folk, never comes near the end zone. This has to help! We will still be able to utilize Brad Smith because it’s not like every kickoff will be kicked through the up-rights! And can we just take a second and look back at the fact that the NFL kicked off from the 35 since the dark ages and only changed it about a decade ago! Bruce Harper is a treasure chest of highlight material from his days returning kicks…. kicked from the opposing 35!

  61. By scjoe on Mar 26, 2011 | Reply

    Ira, how many XPs? I think you have to much time on your hands (:-)

  62. By Tom Spicer on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, Yes we got Eric Smith in the 4th round & didnt trade up to get him but is he even NFL starter caliber? You said Mark was average in the playoffs & I said no he played great in the playoffs & posted numbers to back it up. For you or anyone to say Mark did not do enough in the 1st half of the PITT game to give us a chance to win than you or anyone who says that didnt watch the game or knows nothing about football PITT ran for 160 yards on us they ran the ball down our throat & we ran for 68 yards all day. So please tell me how Mark did not do enough for us to win when our D was dominated & we had no running game? The passing game was all we had my 10 year old nephew could see that! You game of saying me giving credit to just Mark is

  63. By Tom Spicer on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    TIRED I come to the site & comment on the O line, the backs, the WR’S, the D line, the backers & the secondary & when they play well or play poorly I single them out by name & either praise them or say they stink. Its actually the exact opposite when the team does well you give credit to everyone except Mark & I am not the only one who sees it. Socal Jets fan & West coast gang green (not regulars) when the do post they talk about how you are biased against Mark & are quick to point out when he plays poorly but have nothing positive to say when he plays well. You said he was average in the playoffs which is WRONG. I never said he was a great QB I said he played great in the playoffs.

  64. By Tom Spicer on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Mike the EX JET, The players have good medical coverage SO WHAT! EVERYONE SHOULD thats not even worth me commenting on. 95% of the players play out there contracts REALLY? I would love to hear where you got that stat from because that is not possible. Faneca, Woody, Mawae, Baker, Thomas Jones, Jenkins, Barton, Taylor. Do you want me to keep going AT LEAST 50% of the players get cut before there contracts are up. Either 1 of 2 things happen they get older or the cap number is to big so they get cut.

  65. By IRA on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    scjoe, I read those #’s in a magazine.

  66. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Everybody’s entitled to their “personal” opinion, Frank, even if it’s wrong-headed, though you do show a politician’s Orwellian knack for wordplay by calling 3 more games “relevant” when of course they would be totally IRrelevant — except maybe to guys who get knocked out in meaningless games like Welker did. The contract the owners are walking away from actually allows them to unilaterally increase the number of games, which is why Ira’s right about the idea’s not dead. And pre-season is only meaningless to ignorant armchair QBs like you who apparently don’t know what it’s like to try to make a team in only a few games. So you need not only more facts, you need more insight into the game, brains, awareness, empathy, who knows what else…

  67. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Hey John Avvento, I just read that Folk had only 7 touchbacks all year — 5 in the Denver game alone! So no matter what the rule on kickoffs was or is, the idea is to get a better, stronger kicker.

  68. By scjoe on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, in response to your “question” as to whether I even watched that Pitt game or if I know anything about football. Yes, I watched that game just as I have watched every Jet game ever, that has been televised, and yes, I do believe I know just a little something about the game of football. In following it and watching it very closely for the past 55years I picked a little up. So, for those who said MS didn’t do enough in that first half to give us a chance to win, I would give a little credibility to, based on his stats (7-15 63yds no TDs) Maybe I am missing something here Tom, would you say those are great stats? how about good stats? how about poor stats? Lets say he was 10-15 163 yds 1 TD, would that have given us a chance to win?

  69. By scjoe on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    cont… Given the fact we lost 24-19 I think those revised stats I just through out there would have given us a much, much, better chance to win that game, even with that late 1st half fumble he had that resulted in a TD for the opposition, would you agree with that statement Tom? If you do not, maybe it was you who never actually watched that game, or should I dare say, maybe it is you who needs to retake football 101. But I believe that you know enough about the game that you could not possibly disagree.

  70. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Scjoe… Spicer is exasperating isn’t he where does he come up with his logic if it wasn’t for Sanchez I truly believe he would never post anything Jets …now his next logical point is everyone should have the best Medical coverage ..Sherlock!! finally he got one right problem is everyone don’t, ahhhhh Football players do Spicer that was just one of my points – in my opinion your definition on whats right and wrong where players and owners are concerned ..you best keep your day job because all your saying about owners is not reality my friend..Owners run the show they organize everything its owner $$ that pay all the people who make the NFL go Players run their mouths

  71. By champmclean on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Jet Fan 64, You’re right. Schotty makes a lot of suspect calls. All in all our offensive scheme is great but some of his calls…yuck.

    To Everyone: Lets be serious. Eric Smith is a liability…at best

  72. By champmclean on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    I don’t know much about the health care issue in the nfl. Anyone care to enlighten me?

  73. By Frank on Mar 27, 2011 | Reply

    Tommy 64 do you actually read what you write? Just curious you have nothing relevant to say other than bashing me and Goodell just like an “Armchair QB” would. I am bringing facts to the table and you are bloviating. Welker getting hurt in game 16 the year before last was Goodell’s fault? your hilarious.

  74. By Tom Spicer on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    Mike the EX Jet, You are comical at best you are the guy who came to this site for years when the Jets where bad talking about how you are a EX Jet fan & crying about everything under the sun than as soon as they became good you changed your name to Mike the Jet Vet & now are all positive you are comic relief at best. I was posting on this site when Mark Sanchez was in high school so you dont know what you are talking about.

  75. By Tom Spicer on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, So Mark did not do enough in the 1st half of the PITT game for us to win. 1 It had nothing to do with the 169 yards rushing we gave up to PITT. 2 It had nothing to do with the 69 rushing yards we had all game as a team combined 3 Mark had a 102 rating what was his rating supposed to be 150 not realistic 4 60 percentage completions what was he supposed to complete 70 percentage of his passses vs PITT the number 1 D in the NFL on the road in minus 5 degrees AGAIN NOT REALISTIC 5 233 yards passing is he supposed to throw for 300 plus yards vs PITT the number 1 D in the NFL on the road in minus 5 degrees AGAIN NOT REALISTIC 6 2 TD’S 7 zero picks 8 Your point about a fumble lets take a look at that it was a blind side corner blitz where

  76. By Tom Spicer on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    was hit instantly & most people said it should have been a incomplete pass. Lets say it was a fumble could that be blamed on the o line for letting a guy run free to blast him in the back when he is not ready for it? Oh yea in your world its not. This is what you do keep making up fictional stats & say what he could have done but in the real world he had a good game & he played well in the playoffs & the facts & the numbers back it up.

  77. By scjoe on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, you say “was he supposed to pass for 300 yds?” well, if that was what it would have taken to win, YES! Believe me Tom, he would not have been the first QB in the history of the NFL to throw for 300 yds or more in a playoff game. Yes, what I through out to you were fictitious stats, I was giving you an example (and not an unrealistic example either) of how he could have changed the game, no matter how much they ran the ball. He did not, we lost the game, and regardless of you may think, because of what he did in the 2nd half, he was a part of the problem, just like the D was for giving up 160 yds rushing. I will admit that, why wont you? Of all those stats you through out to me, the only one that matters was 24-19 Pitt.

  78. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    Frank, I simply don’t have time to address all your magical thinking and starry-eyed love for all that’s wrong with the NFL in this space. And for all your talk of facts, I don’t see you citing many, like that Goodell and his henchmen said many times last yr that the NFL can increase the number of regular season games whether the players like it or not. I’ve been watching pro football since 1963 and while there are many great things about it at present, there are also obvious problems with it that are almost unique to Goodell’s goals, ambitions, and tenure. No one who has watched the game for any amount of time could possiblly deny this, even if the owners, players, and yes, clueless fans like you can all claim a share of the blame as well.

  79. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    And since your pattern recognition skills seem unusually weak, Frank, I’ll spell it out for you on Welker. No, of course Welker getting hurt in ’09 wasn’t “Goodell’s fault, ” that’s a not too bright child’s attempt to interpret a comment on an adult reality. Rather, Welker’s season-ending injury in a meaningless game at the end of a 16-game season was a chilling foreshadowing of what will happen more often in an 18-game season. There’s already talk of rotating QBs a la starting baseball pitchers under an 18-game season and if comes to that, I doubt I’ll be as interested in watching. That would be a fundamental change every bit as disastrous as last yr’s fiascoes with legal catches, pass int, hits, etc. What the hell NFL are YOU watching?

  80. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    Tom Spicer.. I guess getting facts about any of your points are just impossible insults and nonsense are I’m guessing how you cover up for lack of facts …Yes Tom Spicer can you also explain what my name has whatever it may be have to do with facts points and football , WOWSA talk about comical FYI I was Mike Jet Vet long before Randy’s Radar inception sonny boy.. please stick with the facts

  81. By Westcoast GangGreen on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    Tom Spicer and scjoe, you both have a good back and forth going. Listen, i posted earlier this seaason, no matter what MS does scjoe digs to deep on little things on MS. Just micro picks him apart. Its a team sport, but, the QB position in this team sport gets to much credit and to much blame thats a fact.! About, the Pitt game the JETS as a whole just didn’t match Pitt’s intensity to start. A 10min plus drive allowed to start a few 3&outs by the O.. Yeah he makes mistakes, but he gives the JETS the best chance to win at the QB positon. He has the respect of the O players in the hudldle, the more he plays he keeps improving, and the bigger the game the better he plays and thats what you want from your QB, to give the TEAM the best ..cont

  82. By Westcoast GangGreen on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    cont… chance to WIN the game. I never single out MS or any player, i always refer as Jets , gang green or Jet Nation.. I think someone posted up above that the NFL player ave 3 yr career. Well this is going to be MS 3rd yr w/Jets and the “book still out on him'”just curious, scjoe, as to how long is the BOOK? 3, 4, 5, or 6 yrs on a QB ??? again if the ave. career is 3yrs. Also, Randy if possible can you refresh me on how many picks the Jets gave up, and who was drafted w/those picks, so maybe we can compare to see who got the best since were getting close to 3yrs now. just curious…thats all. scjoe you make good points, i’ve always posted that, a few props wont hurt either.. T Spicer im regular enough on Randy’s Radar …cont

  83. By Westcoast GangGreen on Mar 28, 2011 | Reply

    cont… for you to notice. Anyway guys keep going back and forth, it makes for good reading. I keep checking in on the daily basis, just dont respond as much in off season since im also a big baseball fan. Look foward to upcoming NFL season … Just get the d**m CBA done already.. GO J-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS

  84. By Tom Spicer on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, When Mark has a bad game it is his fault we lost. When Mark has a good game& we lose its not the D’s fault, its not the O lines fault, its well Mark should have done more. It doesnt work like that you cant have it both ways. How about calling it like it is Ravens, Packers, Miami blame them on him if you want (even thou I could make a strong argument with the Packer & Miami games) But 43 points to the Pats, 38 points to the Bears in a game where we score 34 & giving up 24 points & 160 yards to the Steelers while your team rushes for 68 yards. No these are not on the QB & for you to say the QB could have did more is wrong. When you give up 160 rushing yards your D got dominated & when you rush for 68 yards your running game got shut

  85. By Tom Spicer on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    down. Those are the reasons we lost. How about saying we should have got something out of our running game or we should have got something ANY THING at all from our run D. Mabye in your 55 years at some point you learned humility. For example Thomas Jones did not do well for us that 1st year & I wanted to draft McFadden the next 2 years Jones did great & I came on the site multiple times & said I was wrong about him. Well your statement that Mark was average in the playoffs is wrong he was good to great & I posted the stats to prove it. Also the fact that if he plays poor & we lose its his fault & if he plays well & we lose some how to you he didnt do enough. Call it like it is.

  86. By scjoe on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    spicer, you have a very unique way of twisting and turning not only what I post, but the facts in general. MS was 7-15 for 63 yds in the first half of that Pitt game. Those are the facts, you can not deny them or twist and turn them. I made a statement that if he were 10-15 for 150-160 yds and a TD that we would have had a much, much, much, better chance of winning. I will stand by that statement. You can not sit here and tell me that 10-15 150yds and a TD are that outrageous to comprehend. Also I did write in a post above that the D shared in the blame for that loss, what more do you want me to say? Do you want me to repeat that statement? Both, the D and MS play in the first half prevented us from winning. OK?

  87. By scjoe on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    westcoast, I like your logic. You can see the point I am trying to make while mr Spicer just refuses to do so. See, I am a NY Jet fan, as opposed to being a huge fan of any one player. I want to win, I don’t really care who the QB is out there, or any position player for that matter, as long as the give 100% and win. The QB is the most visible player on the field, most times. Regardless of what Mr Spicer will say, I do acknowledge when he has a good game, just as I acknowledge when he does not, just like any player. What I am looking for is for mr spicer to do the same. In answer to your question, I think by the end of this year the book should be closed on MS, one way or another, those stats just have to improve. 3 years is enough.

  88. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    I’ll just weigh in briefly, scjoe, to say I agree and have said many times that next yr is critical for Sanchez, as well as for the guys in charge of his development, i.e. Schotty and Rex. While you can certainly argue that he’s played better in the post-season, you can also argue that his mediocre play in the regular season put him at a disadvantage in the post-season, i.e. that first half against PIT looked like the same Jets who all yr played lousy in the first halves of games and only woke up when it got late — in the case of the PIT game, too late.

  89. By scjoe on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    Tom and Tom, Wouldn’t you both agree that a QB in his third year in the same system should excel, if he is ever going to excel? Would you both agree that anything less then 60% completion and anything less then somewhere nearer a 3-1 TD to INT ratio rather then a 2-1 ratio is unacceptable? Would you both agree that those stats are not that outrageous considering this is his third year in the same system? Now, that said, I would think that even if he stays status quo and their is little to no improvement to speak of, he will not be going anywhere, because that once again, is the politics of the NFL machine. I know, looking at our roster, he gives us the best chance to win, but that is just as much a reflection of what we have behind him.

  90. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 29, 2011 | Reply

    .OH btw Spicer being you insist players only average 3 years in the NFL very interested on what your take will be on Sanchez now that he’s entering his 3th and last year if what you believe is even remotely close to reality, I’m guessing its over for him after this season ….now that you actually see it in writing do you realize how ridiculous that statement really is ..he got 50 mill for 6 years I believe hopefully he’ll be a little more consistent for that kind of scratch

  91. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 30, 2011 | Reply

    Actually I would agree, scjoe. But like MJV says, I’m not sure the Jets brass does, I think they’ll still be over-hyping him and making excuses for him if he has the exact same stats next yr as he did last yr. He’s got to learn to play in the regular season like he does in the post-season.

  92. By scjoe on Mar 30, 2011 | Reply

    MJV, I don’t know where spicer got that stat from (players average 3 yrs in the NFL) but I would say it is a myth. I posted this once before, that if it did have any merit what so ever it is due to performance primarily, just like any other big company, definitely not because of injury. I can probably name you 20 players in the league who go way past that time frame for every ONE that leaves the league due to injury ONLY. So, so much for that theory. We all follow the Jets pretty closely, so who can tell me how many players we had lose their job in 3 years or less due strictly to injury? Tom? How many can you think of?

  93. By Mike Jet Vet on Mar 30, 2011 | Reply

    Scjoe. sad part we traded that QB with the big arm good & stats in preseason that year to Browns before seeing him in action I forgot his name.. then of course the Eric Einge fiasco they became desperate as a result in usual Jets fashion Wallah 50mill bunch of picks in comes Sanchez… Playbook designed around him ( are you listening T-Spicer ) any good Vet would have played just as well or better for far less how about this Since we picked up S-H and B-E both had baggage and suspensions Why not M- Vick for the 5 million Eagles paid he at least paid his dept to society having him in a backfield with L-T S-G T-Rich D-K we would in my opinion have at least one if not 2 AFC championships and SB you feel me T-Spicer

  94. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Mar 31, 2011 | Reply

    Some of those complaints are justified, MJV, but you’re on another planet when you say “Since we picked up SH and BE both had baggage and suspensions.” For one thing, everybody comes with baggage. For another, sure, they have the potential to be suspended, much more so in BE’s case, but they’ve sure played great for us so far — or would you rather go back to J-Co and Coles? And crying at this late date over Ratliff doesn’t make too much sense, since the Browns haven’t stopped grabbing every QB in sight since they got him from us, and the only one of those QBs to not get on the field so far is him. Is he even still on the team? The word is the Browns may even pick a QB this year.

  95. By scjoe on Mar 31, 2011 | Reply

    MJV, you are thinking about Brett Ratliff the QB who went to Cleveland in the Edwards trade. He was a victim of the numbers, like so many before him. He did look great in the limited amount of time we watched him in pre season, but being behind Chad, then Favre, then MS he would never have gotten a legitimate chance, to bad, I would have liked to see what he was capable of. People say, well, he was always playing against the 2s and 3s, well, he was also playing WITH the 2s and 3s.

  96. By Tom Spicer on Apr 1, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE & MIKE THE EX JET FAN, Alot of players come into the NFL make a team for a few years some of them dont even start they play special teams & are off of the team in a few years. Now if what I just described above is 50% of the guys who come into the league then yes most guys are in the league for 3 to 4 years & than out of it.

  97. By Tom Spicer on Apr 1, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, This is your quote above ” I posted this once before, that if it did have any merit what so ever it is due to performance primarily, just like any other big company, definitely not because of injury” & what I said was they 1 get hurt 2 make to much money 3 get old & get cut so WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

  98. By Tom Spicer on Apr 1, 2011 | Reply

    MIKE THE EX JET FAN, The playbook is designed around Mark really Schotty has been the OC for year before Mark has got hear & the play book has not changed. Do you have ANY idea what you are talking about?

  99. By Tom Spicer on Apr 1, 2011 | Reply

    SCJOE, John Unitas who some say is the greatest player in the history of the NFL NEVER averaged 60% completion percentage in his entire career So I would say your statement about him having to average 60% completion percentage is wrong Also Mark having to have a 3 to 1 INT to TD ratio is also wrong Schaub 2 to 1, Peyton less than 2 to 1, Brees less than 2 to 1, Eli less than 2 to 1, Cutler less than 2 to 1 & Palmer less than 2 to 1. THIS YEAR! Even the guys that are the ELITE of the NFL Rivers less than 2 1/2 to 1, Rodgers less than 2 1/2 to 1, Flacco 2 1/2 to 1 again this year. So next year if Mark has 13 picks like he had this year (less than 1 per game which is good) & 26 TD’S Thats 26 TD’S & 13 picks thats 2 to 1 THATS NOT A GOOD YEAR?

  100. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Apr 2, 2011 | Reply

    Hear, hear, Spicer! The 60% completion rate is overrated. In Unitas’ time, only QBs who threw mostly screens and short stuff, like Starr and Tarkenton, consistently achieved it, and that’s just in the NFL. In the AFL, a QB like Jack Kemp could be considered a star with 45% because he threw long so much. Same goes for INTs, with the more wide-open style of passing in the AFL they were MUCH more tolerated. While some of today’s greats achieve 60% and also throw short, middle, and long well thanks to current rules on pass defense, Sanchez’s having failed to reach 60% isn’t his biggest problem. His biggest problem is failing to throw short, middle, and long consistently well. His biggest achievement is winning games despite that problem.

  101. By scjoe on Apr 2, 2011 | Reply

    You pretty much nailed it 64tom. First of all, you can not and should not compare anything that happened in that era to anything that is happening in this one, it is a whole different game. As for Spicer’s latest assault on the stat sheets? Read my post on the latest article for my “counter stats” see, somehow my stats tell a whole different story then that of Spicer’s. What does that mean exactly? It means most times they do not tell the whole story, especially when you pick and choose them, so look at the player for what he is, what is the point of comparing him to other QBs in the league. He has issues he needs to overcome period! Throw the stats of others out the window.

  102. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Apr 2, 2011 | Reply

    As much as I have some problems with Sanchez and even more problems with the way Rex and Schotty have been grooming him, scjoe, I agree with you that it’s not all in the stats. Despite Freeman’s arguably more impressive stats on some levels, I wonder how many GMs would trade Sanchez for Freeman. We won’t even mention Stafford, who already looks too fragile for an NFL career.

  103. By scjoe on Apr 3, 2011 | Reply

    64, based on progress made, and that is really the only thing you can base it on, I would take Freeman over Sanchez every time. You have to consider what Freeman has to work with and what Sanchez has to work with (WRs RBs OL, coaching in general) then make your decision. If you take all of that in to consideration Sanchez has to have an edge on Freeman, ho don’t!

  104. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on Apr 3, 2011 | Reply

    I don’t know, scjoe. I’m not the biggest defender of Sanchez, as my frequent talk of next yr as critical for him proves. But I’ve seen a lot of Freeman, sitting in my local 32-screen sports bar every Sunday and many Monday nights, and whatever his stats, he shows nothing like MS’s knack for clutch play and now, yes, 4th-quarter comebacks. He just doesn’t seem to be playing on that level, despite okay stats some games. He taking less chances, maybe making a few less mistakes, but he doesn’t seem remotely capable of some of the big throws MS made this yr to SH, BE, J-Co, DK, and LT. Okay, maybe if he had targets like that to throw to, but he still looks a cut below MS.

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