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Reexamining John Idzik’s Robust Tampa Roots

Posted by Randy Lange on April 2, 2013 – 3:13 pm

An interesting “backgrounder” involving Jets GM John Idzik was posted by Don Banks and Sports Illustrated late last week. It details the places of Idzik and others not in the “Tampa 2″ but in the “Tampa 7.”

“Idzik’s 20-year NFL career leaves him quite familiar with the experience and pressure of working for a franchise desperate for a turnaround,” Banks wrote. “He did, after all, get his start in the league as part of the remarkable collection of front office talent that Tampa Bay amassed in the mid-90s. …

“Incredibly, Idzik is the seventh member of those mid-90s Bucs to come to power in an NFL front office, tabbed to lead Woody Johnson’s Jets after 11-plus years spent in Tampa Bay’s front office, three more in Arizona, and the past six seasons in Seattle’s well-respected personnel operation.”

Besides Idzik, the other six members of the Tampa 7:

■ Current Falcons president/CEO Rich McKay, the former Buccaneers GM from 1993-2003 who hired Tony Dungy as head coach in 1996, starting the process toward the Super Bowl XXXVII title.

■ Jerry Angelo, the longtime Bucs director of player personnel (1987-2000) whose 11-year stint as the Bears’ GM was highlighted by their 2006 Super Bowl run.

■ Current Titans scout Tim Ruskell, who spent 17 years in the Bucs front office and was Seattle’s GM during its lone Super Bowl season of 2005.

■ Mark Dominik, entering his fifth season as the Buccaneers’ GM and a member of the Bucs front office since 1995.

■ Current Tennessee EVP/GM Ruston Webster, now in his fourth season with the Titans after spending four years in Seattle’s front office and 18 years in a variety of roles with Tampa Bay’s (1988-2005).

■ Current Lions GM Martin Mayhew, a starting cornerback for the 1995-96 Bucs, the final two seasons of his eight-year NFL playing career.

It’s a good read as always by Banks, although he clearly didn’t get a hold of Idzik, who remains publicly quiet while privately working hard at retooling the Jets for 2013 and beyond. But back when the I-Man was first hired, he had this to say about his Buccaneer years and what all of his NFL stops have meant in getting him to this point in his career:

“Rich McKay, Jerry Angelo, Tim Ruskell, Ruston Webster — we went on quite a journey in Tampa. We saw it from the bottom to the top. It was very special. To me, all of those experiences have solidified the power of ‘we’ over ‘me.’ That’s something that is going to be very strong here in New York. As it goes there, it goes here in New York, too. It will be based on a collaborative effort. It will be inclusive, it will be well-thought-out and researched.”

There’s a long way still to go before Idzik’s first Green & White team takes the field, but so far, so good.

Antwan’s New Number

We’ll preview new Jets LB Antwan Barnes’ interview with Eric Allen and the Jets Talk Live Crew on Wednesday — EA’s chat with AB will air Thursday on JTL — but for now we can say Barnes has settled on uniform No. 95 with his newest NFL outfit.

“There were a couple of options open, but I’m going to stick with a 90s number,” said Barnes. “I may not be the size for a 90s number, but I can sure play like it, though.”

We didn’t think there was a linebacker size requirement for the 90s as opposed to the 50s, and Barnes looks, if not immense, big enough at 6’1″, 251. He started out at No. 50 with the Ravens (assistant coaches: Rex Ryan and Dennis Thurman) in ’07, but Garrett McIntyre’s got that one here, and he wore 98 with the Chargers (plus two games as an Eagle), but that’s Quinton Coples’ deal here.

The last Jet to wear 95 on the field was NT Martin Tevaseu in last year’s preseason finale at Philadelphia. Now it’s Barnes’ turn.

So Long to an NFL Legend

A head coach that Idzik’s father, John, ran into back when he was offensive coordinator of the Jets in the late Seventies has passed away. Jack Pardee, 76, died Monday of gall bladder cancer.

Pardee was a legend in the game, from his time as one of Bear Bryant’s “Junction Boys” at Texas A&M in the mid-Fifties through 15 seasons as a solid, one-time Pro Bowl linebacker for the Rams and Redskins through 11 seasons as an NFL head coach of the Bears, ‘Skins and Oilers.

The Jets didn’t run into Pardee much as a player, since they didn’t start to play NFL teams until the end of his career. He was the LLB starter and team captain for the Rams in a 31-20 Jets win in L.A. in 1970, and the starter again on the left side for Washington in a 35-17 Jets loss at Shea Stadium in ’72.

They fared worse against him as a coach, losing four of five meetings with his teams. The first was in ’78, when Pardee’s ‘Skins whipped the Jets of Walt Michaels and OC Idzik Sr., 23-3. The only Green & White win came in Bruce Coslet’s first year at the helm, at Houston by 17-12 in 1990. But the Jets paid for that by losing twice the next season to Pardee’s Oilers, 23-20 at home in the regular season and 17-10 in the Astrodome in the ’91 playoffs.

Wherever the game took him, it always seemed to bring him back to the Lone Star State. He coached the “run-and-shoot” offense with the USFL’s Houston Gamblers, then the University of Houston, then the Oilers before ending his NFL coaching career in ’94.

“We lost a great coach and, more importantly, a great man today,” Mike Munchak, current Titans head coach and a player and assistant coach for Pardee, said in a statement. “I truly admired his passion for football and was especially inspired by his love of the history of the game. He often shared stories of his NFL playing days to motivate his players, which has greatly influenced the way that I now coach my players. Coach Pardee will surely be missed.”


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Posted in Randy Lange | 64 Comments »


64 Responses to “Reexamining John Idzik’s Robust Tampa Roots”

  1. By Mike Jet Vet on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Ok. let me absorb this logic. against the thinking of the one or two experts here at R- Radar, just by their expertise in so many insightful comments judgement s Etc. knowing all the right moves are being made so far. Leading into 2020, those few I won’t mention names, believe the genius of trading or letting players like. Scott, Pace, Thomas, smith Landry, Bell,and Devito. go, then pick up A-Barnes let me ask who believes he is an upgrade over any of the above.. which BTW he started in a Rex and Thurman system, not to mention knowing Rex is here as a lame duck and gone in 2014, A-Barnes? talk about over the hill FA’s how did he fair in SD or Philly yet Idzik takes him in??? Am I missing something here.

  2. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on the Mend on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    The key to what you’re missing lies in that word that scjoe is stuck on, too, MJV — upgrade. This will sound like sarcastic understatement to those who agree with me on Idzik but since you don’t…I don’t think Idzik is the least bit interested in upgrades with any of the guys he’s signed with the possible exception of Goodson. He’s interested in bodies to fill up the roster for cheap for a yr in which everybody from Rex on down, including the new coaches, will be evaluated for 2014. He knows we’ve almost never had a yr like that and need one badly to change the culture and the course of this franchise. Heck, if we lose some of the fans who keep acting like it’s still 1970 and we’re SB contenders (not you), that may be a good thing too!

  3. By ronbo on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    MJV, the logic I see is we were 6-10 with the guys we axed & we still owe some of them money.All of the above players were looking for long term deals for a lot more money to remain jets(look at the ludicrous deal Tanny gave David Harris(13 mill)plus Pouha’s deal was nuts as well.So no we likely didn’t upgrade any posisitions talent wise, but we did eliminate a lot of long term debt to players who produced 2 consecutive sub-par seasons.So unless your satisfied going 6-10 I think we are on the right track.Obviously time will tell.

  4. By IRA on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    Well I have to admit I was wrong about them hiring a so called Cap type GM again. Once I have heard,spoken with people and the more I read about Idzik I truly believe the Jets got the right guy. Of course the draft these next two years will tell us more but the NFL tree he comes from is very impressive and he is surrounded with an excellent personnel staff in place I have complete confidence in them all getting this team back on track ASAP.
    GO JETS!!!!

  5. By IRA on Apr 2, 2013 | Reply

    So SF signs Asomugha so I would think they wil not get involved in the last hour to get Revis you would think. I feel if the Jets were to draft a QB this year I would like to see them draft Manuel if they can. It’s almost certain Smith will be there at 9 and maybe the Jets can bait some team not trading up to take him.

  6. By SCfromNY on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I am stating to get nervous about all the teams ahead of us picking up decent QBs. I can almost hear the thoughts of, “Wow we didn’t expect that QB to be there.” On the positive side, the QB needy teams that have picked up FA QBs will probably wait till later rounds giving us a chance to go QB in 2nd. Another pick from the Bucs would change everything. We could trade down 1 first to get a QB and still have the 9th plus extras in later rounds.

    Let’s all hope for a quality draft. Keeping the saleries down will let us sign any players like Wilkerson & Coples in the future should they become really good as oppossed to losing in FA.

  7. By GaryC on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Idzik might have so little regard for the jets scouts,he might ask his old scouts from Seattle who they think are the top talents this year,maybe if were lucky.

  8. By GaryC on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I liken the jets,hopefully to my hockey team,the Isles,a team that decided to go with youth,with a few vets sprinkled in and out,young talent on the horizon,Hope the Jets look at that blueprint.

  9. By Frank on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Ira my thoughts exactly. I really thought the 49ers would be players in the Revis market you can now take them out of the equation with thye signing of Asomugha. The Raiders are looking but have no draft picks to offer. It really comes down to the Bucs unless someone else comes out of the blue. If idzik does not get a trade done that will be a major mistake and he will lose any credibility he know has. I really hope he doesn’t blow this opportunity we HAD.
    They better not draft Smith or any QB at 9 we should wait until next year. We now have so many holes it makes no sense to draft a QB with the first pick especially since none are worth that pick.
    Personally if Glennon is around in the 3rd round which is hardly likely I would draft him.

  10. By Jack on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Jets need to make that trades with TB, soon or on drafts day. Here something that might work for both teams. Jets get TB, 1st Rd pick in 2013 drafts and a 2nd Rd pick in 2014 drafts picks. TB, get Revis Now if Revis plays 100% injured free for the whole 2013 season and has a good year. Jets to receive a 1st and a 2nd Rd’s Drafts picks in 2014 let stop clowning around and get this deal done.

  11. By Mike Jet Vet on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Ok Ronbo I for one don’t agree with that logic,I don’t want to wait until 2015-16-17 and beyond and I’m very sure the season tickets holders are getting very tired as well waiting and paying the price, don’t you. Tom64 this may also sound sarcastic. Now that I know you’re a Mind reader along with all your other wonderful quality’s..meaning in your mind idziks is making all the right moves. I’m not saying he’s not, I as a fan am interested in winning now not waiting when ever Idziks decides to get going . take into account there are hundreds of thousands fans including me not interested in waiting or wanting to pay for games another 5-6 years just to watch a sub 500 team weather it works or not, That’s my logic agree or not..

  12. By ronbo on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    IRA, While I agree the early returns (though limited talent wise) so far certianly bare out what you say here. But as you also point out, the next two drafts will tell us alot more about idzik’s talent evaluation ability than anything he has done todate!
    As for his “excellent staff you also refer to that is also still to be determined.Strictly going by the last 5 drafts I would have to say they have been an unmittigated disaster!!! Now, how much of the blame for the abysmal drafting is on them vs. Tanney is also to be determined. As Idzik’s hireing left him little time to assemble a quality staff its obvious he was stuck with these guys for this years draft. It will be interesting to see how many of them are with us for next years
    draft?

  13. By Tom Spicer on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    It is looking more & more like Geno Smith is going to be there for the Jets at 9 something I thought would never happen in a million years. 1 The Cheifs have Alex Smith 2 The Jags have Blaine Gabbert only 2 years in 3 Raiders just traded for Flynn 4 Eagles have Vick & Foles so I dont see them taking a QB 5 Lions have Stafford 6 Browns have Weeden who they took in the 1st round last year & just signed Jason Cambell to push him 7 Cards just got Palmer & Bills just got Kolb. Unless the Jags have already given up on Gabbertt I think Geno Smith will be there at 9 for the Jets. What a better way to send a message to Sanchez & Rex then to take Geno Smith with the 9th pick?

  14. By Tom Spicer on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I dont see the Jets taking a center, guard, tackle, TE, WR, RB, DE, MLB, corner or saftey with the 9th pick. It is all going to come down to these 3 positions pass rushing OLB, NT & QB. One of these 3 positions will be the pick. Floyd, Milliner & Joeckel will go before we pick so 1 of these 6 will be our pick. Star Lotulelei, Geno Smith, Dion Jordan, Barkeviuos Mingo, Jarvis Jones or Ezekiel Ansah.

  15. By kleckofan on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Hey Guys- just back from vacation (Vegas), I’m sure I missed lots of passionate debate.
    On this thread: predictably I am drinking the Ronbo & JFT64 Kool Aid. Who cares about upgrades? Its about cutting bait and starting new.
    Please, please do not start screaming for Geno Smith. I hope he’s gone before #9 and its a non-issue.
    Ira- glad to hear that your info is telling you I-Man is more than an office guy. I just read where Tanny joined a player agency, the other side of the table so to speak. Good, I hope the Jets can get some of the players that choose him, we all know what a great negotiator he is… NOT.

  16. By scjoe on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    64, lets assume your fantasy about Idzik having no interest in upgrading is “somewhat” true, why not resign guys like Slauson who would not have broken the bank? Why not release Ducasse who has the word bust tattooed on his forehead? Why not resign Keller who also would not have broken the bank, still in his prime, and would have been a good fit in the WCO. Why go out and write on the Meadowland scoreboard that “the NYJ have NO intentions of competing this year, we have no intentions of making any upgrades on the roster, but please continue to buy those PSLs and continue to purchase those season and game day tickets, hopefully in the next 2 or 3 years we may be able to improve”

  17. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on the Mend on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Ira, nice to see you talking in terms of the 2 yrs of drafts that Idzik is thinking in terms of. That should be the standard for discussing all major personnel moves on this team, from the new franchise QB to the unloading of Revis. Ronbo, nice to see someone else who remembers how ridiculous it was to give Pouha anything more than a cheap 1-yr deal, as I said at the time in 2012. Notice how Idzik doesn’t need any of us fans telling him to offer no more than cheap 1-yr deals to old, overrated, or otherwise marginal players. Only a few more weeks until the first Idzik draft, in which we won’t trade away half our picks to get busts or near-busts. Mr T’s new job as a sports rep sounds right, as he’s an expert at overpaying lousy players.

  18. By since shea on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    What team in their right mind will sign Revis now for $10-12-14 million??? Questions surrounding his complete recovery and continued premier status aside, what are the other corners getting? The “great” Assomugha, who we waited dearly for and lost out to Philly for, got $3Mil? Other top corners got what, $5 Mill max? Looks like Revis will play for us this year unless we trade him at the deadline once he proves to be 100% recovered. Or should we keep him? If so, he should not expect to get the telephone numbers he wants. Corners don’t warrant QB salary

  19. By SQUIRREL on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I am right with Ira on this. I think Idzik is doing a great job. Rex will be gone next year and Idzik has not committed us to any stupid contracts that will hold us back. I just really hope that they don’t botch the revis deal or potential deal. I would take a first and second in 2014 in a heartbeat. I truly believe that you only trade up in the draft for a Stud and even then one you know will be an impact player. CLOWNEY is that guy.

  20. By GaryC on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Tom Spicer,you are right,Geno Smith will be there when the Jets draft at number 9,and hopefully there after the Jets draft at number 9

  21. By russ on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Gino is a no no…

  22. By SCfromNY on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    Agree with “since shea” about CB money. I hope Revis sitting there thinking about a reasonable contract from the Jets. A long term contract laden with penalties for hold outs. That said I would be happy with the Bucs 1rst & 3rd this year for Revis.

    Should we get the trade I like Glennon in the 3rd. We have so many other needs it will be easy to pick both our need and best player.

    If we don’t pick another QB I would invite Vince Young to camp to see if he has grown up. After all Tebow and Simms (sorry Phil) will not be an issue.

  23. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on the Mend on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    MJV, I said I’d sound sarcastic to those who agreed with me on Idzik, but you seem not to. So let’s cut to the chase; How are you gonna win now with this joke of a team? You got a lame-duck HC who has no idea how to score pts, a little boy at QB who flinches when a CB jumps at him lined up wide and throws into 8 guys week after week, and one of the weakest rosters in the NFL. You woulda preferred breaking the bank for A Smith, Dumervil, and Amendola and praying for rain? All I’m saying is the 2-yr, draft-driven approach that me, Ira, and now the back-from-LV klecko are on board with seems the much smarter route. As for season tix folks, like I said once before, I think if you get on that train, you gotta ride out the tough stretches.

  24. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on the Mend on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    scjoe, inching closer and closer to reasonableness: Slauson said he wanted “more long-term security,” then took a 1-yr deal with CHI. Maybe that means he felt unloved here, but he’s hardly essential. Ducasse is still on his cheap rookie contract and might be gone by August. Keller got $4.25 mil from MIA for 1 yr. We apparently didn’t want to give Heyward-Bey $3 mil for 1 yr, so we probably offered Keller about that for 1-yr and he walked. How is any of this of any real importance on a team that needs to evaluate the whole roster, get a new QB, and draft high for the next 2 yrs? since shea, I believe Revis will be traded if only because of his constant holdouts, which the Jets are rightfully fed up with. We’ll get what the market will bear.

  25. By Mike Jet Vet on Apr 3, 2013 | Reply

    I just hope it’s not Fans, Rex, Woody, and company who wind up being the one’s stuck with Idzik. I don’t believe that, but, by the few statements I’m hearing from the Usual suspects, no matter what happens with this team if good it will be the genius of Idzik, if bad it will be the every one else mostly Rex, even though like they say Idzik isn’t interested in this year or acquiring any good players until 14 and beyond, Ira I’m shocked you agreeing We might take Manuel @ 9 or slightly after , Between him and Smith I believe he will be more suited for us coming in under the radar so to speak

  26. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    MJV,if you read my posts you know I’m a fan of yours.You are one of the best here but in this case I believe you are thinking more with your heart more than you head.I know 64 can come off as harsh but his above post is spot on!How do you plan on contending this year with No Q.B,No playmakers at any posisition,holes all over the roster and no depth at any posisitions?I’m just being realiastic bro.We gotta buckle up cause this is gonna be a bumpy ride.

  27. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    S.C.Joe, come on dude, you gotta be kidding me about Keller being a good west coast threat? Dude, first of all he has to stay on the field to catch a pass.Secondly, he is only 6-1 1/2 about 240 so he is really more of an H-back and the last time I checked w/c offences usually feature taller in-line T.E types who break tackles.Now I know we havn’t seen much of Keller lately but does that sound like the guy who played for us? And Slauson? what did he sign for with Dallas-1 yr about 1 mill? Why should we value guys who can only go 6-10 and cant get better than vet.mini deals from other teams?

  28. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    SPICER, I really like your analysis of how the early part of the 1st Rd is shapeing up.Good job dude. I am hearing D.Jordan’s name a lot in the top 3 or 4 so he may not be an option either?Thats too bad as I’m kind of leaning that way in terms of my preference.I recently talked to my buddy who’s the Panthers new G.M.and there is tremendous diversity of opinions on a lot of the players we have spoken about here.Logically,when you look at how the teams you mentioned have shored up their Q.B.situations Jacksonville is the only spot G.Smith makes sence.

  29. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom on the Mend on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    For the record, Ronbo, I try to only allow the harshness if I’m going for a laugh. I work all day on a computer and when I go on a football site, I don’t want to read posts that sound like they were written by George Will and Eleanor Clift. Maybe Allan can tell some of the folks on the site about the tradition of “playing the dozens,” if he’s that old-school. But back to rebuilding: I don’t know why some of the usual suspects, as MJV calls ‘em, think there’s any pt in talking about contending until we have a QB, an O that can score, and a HC who wants to score more than 10 pts a game. And I’ll promise you right now, MJV, even if we go 8-8 this yr — unlikely but the best we could do, I think — I’ll want Rex fired right after the last snap.

  30. By Tom Spicer on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Ronbo, I know you are into the colllege game. Who do you want the Jets to take at 9?

  31. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    SPICER,The only guys I have no reservations about picking at #9 are not the best fits for us at this time.Unless we could trade Brick for a high pick it makes no sense to take L.T Luke Joeckel or E.Fischer who are studs!Besides,they will likely be gone anyway.I believe the best fit is Deon Jordan as he is the perfect skill set to play OLB. At 6-7 250 he has speed,change of direction and the attitude we would love.Kind of the anti Coples in that Jordan never takes plays off.The problem with Jordan is will he be there? I like Texas S Kenny Vaccaro a lot too & he certianly fills a big need!
    I’m gonna-

  32. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    Cont,-see if Randy will make an exception so I can do my top 15 at every posisition. I think it will be better than Kipers and you guys can always rag on me if its not!Its a lot harder than it looks to do a good moc because we simply have no idea what teams really think of these guys and inspite of what people say about not drafting for need, teams do it anyway!On a different header I listed a trade proposal I saw on “FAN SIDED”,I was wondering if you or Gary C caught it and what you thought of it? I’m not saying I love it, I just thought it was interesting.

  33. By ronbo on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    64,no sweat Bro, I wasn’t in anyway being critical of your delivery.Some people may take it as harsh or tough love buy I get where you are going and feel your exasparation! While others seem content with going 6-10,7-9 or even 8-8? like you I’m getting to damn old and again, I’m not looking for a one year quick fix! I want us to be more like the Steelers,Pats,Ravens & other teams who basically can book their playoff reservations with their travel agents in August.We need to build a sustainable roster like the teams above!

  34. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 4, 2013 | Reply

    No problem, Ronbo, I know you din’t mean nuthin’, just ‘splainin’ to’ ya how I like to take a break from my usual work routine. John Heard’s line from CUTTER’S WAY definitely applies to any Jet fans who’ve turned to the bottle by now: “It’s the daily grind that drives me to drink, tragedy I take straight.” But hey, you need to direct your last post to GaryC, he’s on record as saying we’ll never build a team and rebuild it yr after yr like the Steelers and Pats. I don’t know if he’s right but I think Idzik is the first guy we’ve had in a long time who even understands why it’s worth trying to do that.

  35. By scjoe on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    Ron, I really don’t care what Keller’s height and weight measurements may be, considering who the TEs are right now on this roster, and factoring in that Keller (when healthy) is an above average receiver, he has YAC ability and that in itself will make him a good fit (maybe not a great fit) but a good fit in the WCO When you also consider that he would not have broken the bank, and that he has at least some chemistry with Sanchez, if, God forbid he remains the starter, it almost becomes a no brainer. Forget the fact that you don’t like him, I am not a huge fan myself, but as Michael Corleone stressed, “it is just business”

  36. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    Yeah, scjoe, Keller has YAC ability when he can remember where the 1st-down marker is. He’s also about as easy to bring down as Woodhead, which is another trait of his that excludes him from the present model at his position. And “chemistry with Sanchez” is a reason to let him go in and of itself, considering that MS is gone after this yr. I wouldn’t be surprised to see MS never take the field again as a Jet after only a couple of games this season, especially if we pick one of the more intriguing QBs in the 2nd or 3rd round and he really makes a case for himself to play or even claim the starting job. MS barely claimed the job over Clemens and he’s been coddled ever since. He must GO!

  37. By ronbo on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    S.C.Joe, I know your a very sharp guy and would never seriously question your intellegence but familurarity with Sanchez as a reason to keep Keller? First of all I have nothing against Keller other than I think his skill set and stature are in the botton half of players at his posisition.It’s not personel as I have never met the guy.When I look at the upper echelon guys and see what they bring to the table Keller just comes up short! (hey,I made a funny!) I’m sorry bro, but if you want this team to get better ya gotta bring in better players than Matt Slauson & Dustin Keller

  38. By scjoe on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    64, I am not a fan of Dustin Keller, lets establish that fact right off the bat. BUT! If you were to take a close look at the current roster, take a closer look at who is still available in free agency (which I know you hate anyway) then, consider exactly where a TE would fit in in this upcoming draft, and make a reasonable decision based on all those things, I ask you, who would you like to see at that spot on opening day? Oh, that may be an unfair question to ask, because I know you would prefer the team to fail rather then succeed. I think that last point in itself is the #1 sticking point between you and me.

  39. By Dr. Frank on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    Hey guys, I know I am jumping in here late. I am starting to think that the way this draft is shaping up is that if the guy the Jets want at #9 is not there, then they should trade down for another additional pick. Right now, we know they need at least one OG, OLB, a safety or two, a RB, WR and a QB and a corner, esp. if Revis is traded. Right now, I think they should pass on Geno at #9. I do think that they will have a few blue chip OL like Warmack, Cooper, and Johnson available, as well as Vaccaro and maybe Jones. If they trade down a few picks at least one of these guys will still be around and will be a great help to them. Heck, they might even be able to get a couple of them or even Rhodes or Fluker or a WR. OL and safety are de

  40. By Dr. Frank on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    deep in this draft. If we can stockpile a few extra picks if who the Jets deem is #1 on their board for the ninth pick is not there, trading down makes a lot of sense. I don’t see them wasting a first rounder on a QB or RB this year, or a WR unless they trade down in the round. I think OL, S, and OLB are the biggest priorities that have to be addressed early. They definitely cannot afford to reach on picks this year. They need solid players that can start right away. I also forgot to mention that they need a TE badly, too. They may have to address that position in the 2nd round. They seem to have the DL in pretty good shape, so if they solidify the OL and TE early, they will be good in the trenches and be able to compete, even with

  41. By Dr. Frank on Apr 5, 2013 | Reply

    a bunch of mediocre running backs, quarterbacks and defensive backfield. Remember, we need to fill so many positions it is hard to determine which is the most important position to fill right now with a QB class that is not so great. I just hope they draft the best player that they can draft regardless of position, rather than just to fill needs. They need to get great players at whatever position, not average players to fill needs. They can get those on the cheap after the draft. Since the draft is thick with OL and S, maybe they will address these positions later and the others earlier, say OLB in round 1, then TE or RB, then OL, then S, then Wr, then QB, or something like that. Whatever happens, it should be very interesting….

  42. By scjoe on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    Ron, no one, and I mean NO ONE! Wants to see Mark Sanchez off this team any more then I do. So please, don’t put those words in my mouth. That said, no matter how much I, or anyone else want him gone, means NOTHING in the grand scheme of things. If Garrard don’t pan out, and they don’t draft a QB high (both distinct possibility’s) who do you see starting the season???

  43. By ronbo on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    DR.Frank,As much as any of here are not thrilled(to say the least)about our current situation at G, there are at least two guys who can line up there.(not saying either(Colon & Ducasse)is a long term soloution, but at this point I would prefer them at G to who we currently have at S or OLB.Barnes & McIntyre are currently #’s 1 & 2 on our depth chart and if that doesn’t scare you pray it doen’t work out that way because neither is starting caliber.Ditto the situation ar S as we have 2 2nd yr guys with zero NFL starts.

  44. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    It’s a somewhat finer pt than “I’d rather see the team fail than succeed,” scjoe. It’s much closer to I’d rather see the team de-emphasize the W-L record for a yr or 2 when we have no chance in those yrs to seriously compete anyway in favor of serious (gulp!) rebuilding. From that perspective, Cumberland vs. a draft pick at TE with Reuland backing up sounds just fine. Allan and Bush at S vs. 2 draft picks is just fine. I know this is heresy to you and that strange phenomenon known as the Win This Year With Zero Talent sect, but when you have this many needs I don’t see any problem with developing a team like we did in the ’60s in this way. Again, I think Allan’s post on the story ahead of this one NAILED it! Dr. Frank, awesome overview!

  45. By scjoe on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    Dr Frank, agree to a point! But a “need“, and a “best player available” pretty much go hand and hand for this particular Jet team. Meaning, a best available at “most” positions will fill a need for them.(excluding C, maybe OT, DT, CB? (Depending on the Revis situation) and that 3-4 DE) To me, the #1 priority has to be a pass rusher. (3-4 OLB) I believe at least one of the units, offense or defense, has to be strong enough to carry this team in 2013. The defense is in a much better position to do that “if” they hit a HR on that pass rusher. I think after that, QB, OG, S, RB, and TE in that order, is where they need to go, even if there is a “best player available” at other positions still available.

  46. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 6, 2013 | Reply

    I’d have no problem watching McElroy start for the entire yr, scjoe, considering that his college record, pocket presence, and intelligence both on and off the field dwarfs anything Sanchez has in those departments. And I don’t wanna waste a high pick on the wrong QB if the right one is only a yr away.

  47. By scjoe on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    64, LOLOL! Now I understand, so you are not saying you don’t want the team to succeed, you are just saying they need to de-emphasize the WL record for a couple of years? Excuse me, just got back up off the floor. Literally! OK, that was funny, now back to reality, you honestly believe that the team is “OK” with Cumberland, Reuland and a rook at TE, AND, Bush, Allen, and a rook or 2 is “fine” at the safety spots? Or are you simply going with anything contrary to my logic? And here I am thinking that you were the guy who coined the phrase “lets raise the bar” re: how we viewed this team.

  48. By scjoe on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    64, gotta be honest with ya! Watching a healthy McElroy in that season ending debacle vs. SD just scared the bajeebes out of me. I know there were other factors, but if you could somehow place a somewhat accurate percentage on the entire debacle, I would say 70-30 against McElroy. I have seen many QBs over the years in their first ever start (I think this was his 2nd or 3rd) and I can’t remember any of them being quite as “uncomfortable” (to put it as discreetly as I can) as he was. Maybe it was an anomaly, maybe it wasn’t. Lets just stay tuned.

  49. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    As you know, scjoe, one of the Jets’ biggest problems since about ’70 has been drafting guys and then chickening out of even finding out if they can play. When you add that to the reality of this yr, in which the owner is just waiting to fire the HC and see how much of the roster is worth bringing back in 2014, it makes more sense to play McElroy, Cumberland, etc. than ever. Now, no one has been more vocal in his desire for Woody to sell this team to someone who’d really instill an ethic of winning, like Curtis Martin, and do it in the right place, i.e. New York City or Long Island, than me. But right now we got Woody and at least he’s letting Idzik do what he’s doing instead of sticking with what Mr T was doing.

  50. By GaryC on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    jetfantom,my computer has been out of commission for awhile so I haven’t checked the posts,then there you go again saying I do not believe the jets can build like the pats and steelers,I WILL SAY THIS ONE MORE TIME,this stems back to your Love of Rex theory that you promoted so eloquently when he first arrived,the same as players would come here for their marketability,it had nothing to do with drafting players,but first you had to keep your picks.You were the one who has done an about face on Rex and the veterans who he can bring in,not I.Idzik,giving time looks like he knows what he is doing and will not cower to anyone in giving the jets the best chance to build like the Pats and Steelers.

  51. By Dr. Frank on Apr 7, 2013 | Reply

    Lots of mock drafts are predicting the Jets will pick Star Lotulelei, with pick number 9. I think this is a possibility, but might be a waste, unless Kendrick Ellis can’t do the job and Jarvis Jones Pro Day made his stock plummet.I know everyone wants a pass rusher on this blog. They do need one, don’t get me wrong, but there may be better players at other positions available. The Jets have so many needs that they need to pick the best player on their board and fill needs that they don’t get with free agents after the draft. Just my humble opinion. I still have a feeling that they are going to draft an OG or OT at #9, or even a S or CB. Rex loves to draft CB’s and NT’s, so don’t be surprised if he draft NT as it is important in 3-4 D.

  52. By russ on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    Many interesting analysis of the Jets needs, but most important is how can we judge any quarterback on this roster without an OL that can dominate the line of scrimmageLast years line was so porous that we got noting on fisrt down running plays and quarterbacks both Sanchez and Mc Elroy had to run for their lives…You can understand why a Peyton Manning never showed up. As an aside Kendrick Ellis has this year to show he wants to play if not he is another bust

  53. By Dr. Frank on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    I know everyone here is complaining about the poor play of the QB’s last season. I agree that Sanchez was horrible and that McElroy had his ups and downs. McElroy needs to be given a legitimate chance to play. He is much smarter than Sanchez and I think he has shown to be decent under pressure. Pressure is the problem. If the Jets don’t shore up their offensive line with quality players, I don’t care if they have Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees or Tom Brady back behind center. It is too hard to play QB when you are constantly wondering where and when you will be hit next while you are running for your life! Even Sanchez would have been less horrible with better offensive line play, but he will never be an elite QB. Give McElroy or someone

  54. By Dr. Frank on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    else a better OL and you will see the Jets be more competitive. That’s why I think they should load up on the OL this year, a good draft for it! Everyone is screaming for a pass rusher, and agreed, one is needed. However, I just think OL is much more important as well as the NT position. If the Jets can run the ball, pass when necessary and stop the run on defense, they can be somewhat competitive. Rex can continue to scheme for a pass rush as he has done since he arrived. Coples may also provide more pass rush in his second year, too. They can only build so many pieces this year and I think the OL is most important, and that includes a TE that can block and catch. Defensive picks need to be a NT to stop the run and safety as they

  55. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    GaryC, you had a few posts on why the Jets couldn’t build like PIT, NE, and so on that had nothing to do with Rex as I recall it. But if you’re saying that now that Rex is on the way out we can rebuild that way, great! I have no problem doing an about-face on Rex, that’s a lot better than living in denial. His first yr he looked like he might’ve known what O is about by living with J-Co and Stuckey for a month and then getting Mr T to trade for Edwards. By the time we were down 24-0 to PIT at the half, I had more than a few questions about Rex, his elite QB, and their future in Florham Park. So it’s adapt or die. Since early in their 3rd yr I’ve been saying Rex and Sanchez ain’t the guys and that’s more than some folks on this site can say.

  56. By Dr. Frank on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    are devoid at that postion, OLB if they can get a blue chipper and maybe a corner as Revis will probably be gone. Gotta build the team in the pits, guys! Brick and Mangold and Colon aren’t getting any younger and I wouldn’t consider Austin Howard a stalwart at RT. If a few weeks we will see what happens and who has the best grasp of what the Jets Brass is trying to do with this team and how they feel that it should be rebuilt.

  57. By GaryC on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    JetFanTom,do not be so sure Rex is out the door yet,maybe you might be referring to me saying the jets could not be the Pats and Steelers do to past culture,what players might think of the jets,and their losing mentality over the years,Idzik will bring change,I believe in that regard.

  58. By scjoe on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    Dr Frank, Star Lotulelei is not your prototypical 3-4 NT. I don’t see him being in the NYJ plans. Now, if you were talking about John Jenkins the 6’4″ 346 lb DT from Georgia I think you can make the case to trade down and pick him up. But even that will depend on what Rex has seen from both Ellis and Harrison in the coming weeks.

  59. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    The usual in-depth great stuff, Dr. Frank!

  60. By Ronbo on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    S.C.Joe, yeah I agree about Lotulelei, He’s an impressive guy but I dont think he’s a great fit either. I like Jenkens but with his weight issues I wouldn’t touch him till Rd3 but he’l be long gone then. I would consider his team mate(Geathers) in Rd.7 or as a free agent as he’s even bigger and no slouch either. RUSS, last years O.line was not as bad as you make it out.Brick graded out as #8 at his posisition,Mangold #2 at his and both G’s finished top 15.Our R.T did give up a team high 8 sacks but was a major improvement over W.Hunter.Howard also finished in the top half of players at R.T. I’m not saying these guys were the 7 blocks of granit or anything but a lot of the blame needs to be directed at M.S, S.Greene & even Mac.

  61. By Dr. Frank on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    scjoe, Star is 6-3 and 320 lbs and his heart condition seems not to be an issue. He is listed at DT, not NT, but many think he can play both and is athletic. Plus, he is from Utah, the same place Pouha played, LOL. We shall see what happens…

  62. By Jet Fan Since '64 Tom Up for the Downstroke on Apr 8, 2013 | Reply

    Idzik is definitely bringing change, GaryC, but I don’t see a lot of it having to do with Rex this fall or him getting the credit for it next winter. As I said a few months ago, I think the big perceptual mistake that many of us, including me, made was concluding that Woody’s lip service to how Rex is “right for the Jets” and his decision to keep him around this yr meant Woody wants him for more than that one yr. Clearly, if Woody was concerned about Rex having little chance to do better than 4-12 this yr, he wouldn’t be allowing Idzik to do what he’s doing.

  63. By scjoe on Apr 10, 2013 | Reply

    Dr Frank, I would say he is closer to 310, and I know he is listed as a DT not a NT, therefore my point that the NYJ will show little or no interest. That said, there have been many college DTs who went on to become good 3-4 NTs mostly due to the fact that not to many college teams play a 3-4 type D. I just don’t see Lotulelei as one of them.

  64. By RONBO on Apr 11, 2013 | Reply

    S.C.Joe & DR.Frank, I see Lotulelei & Shariff Floyd (Fl.) as an end in a 3-4 alignment and a 3 technique in a 4-3. I dont think either of those guys is stout enough to play the nose (except perhaps on 3rd & long?) on a full time basis as they would probably just get worn out against the road grader types who play on the inside of todays O-lines.

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